Ep 9: Low Tox Beauty - What You Need to Know About Makeup Ingredients with Amy Enos

Welcome to the Hairy Chin Podcast. I'm Spencer Moore, your host, here to explore the good, the bad, the hairy and the fabulous of female health. Join us for eye-opening conversations, myth-busting insights, and relatable stories that celebrate the realities of womanhood. And don't miss our Pluck This! segment for tangible takeaways from each episode. Life takes a village, let's do this together.

Spencer Moore (: 00:00

Hi, Amy. Welcome back!

Amy Enos (: 00:02

Good morning, Spencer. It's so good to be back.

Spencer Moore (: 00:05

It's so great to have you back. We had our first interview together that came out about a month ago and there was such a great response and people wanted to know more and they wanted to know about makeup. So we are back today to get into it about makeup and I'm just, I'm so excited to chat with you again.

Amy Enos (: 00:22

I know it's funny when you and I were planning this, we were really trying to turn this around quickly for people because we are in a holiday timeframe, right? Where people are shopping and we thought this is really pertinent information when people are making decisions about what they're buying for themselves and their loved ones.

Spencer Moore (: 00:41

Yeah, that's right. That's right. We decided to kind of drop this special episode. Surprise, Amy's back! We're very excited about it because yeah, I do think that this is really important. Look, we're going to get into some statistics like I always do at the beginning of these episodes, but makeup is important. It's important to women. It's important to men as well. And the holiday season is when you buy these types of things, you know, it's having to freshen up your eyeshadow palette or maybe try some new blush or lipstick. So I'm really excited to get into some of this information that we can share just further education. It's not what's right and it's not what's wrong. It's just to share some expertise and experience so that people can make their own best informed decisions, right?

Amy Enos (: 01:28

Absolutely.

Spencer Moore (: 01:29

Well, actually, let's just recap for a second. Amy is our amazing low-tox pharmacist. Amy has a background in pharmacology and she has shifted into low-tox living. She's an advocate for removing toxins and educating about toxins in our daily lives. So yes, welcome back. And okay, let's chat about some statistics.

Amy Enos (: 01:48

Yes, yes.

Spencer Moore (: 01:52

It's actually interesting, and what I was researching for this episode, less and less women are actually wearing makeup. The numbers are going down. It used to be in the 60s, 60%. Now it's less than 50 % of women are wearing makeup. What I found really interesting was that there is an increasing area of the population that are wearing more makeup, and it's men. The numbers of men are rising in makeup. So look, whoever you are listening to this episode, this is information that's for everybody. Let’s talk about some studies that have been done about makeup. study by Robertson and colleagues in 2008 found a positive correlation between the frequent use of cosmetics and anxiety, self-consciousness, and conformity. Women who reported wearing makeup less frequently tended to have higher social confidence, emotional stability, and self-esteem. We're going to talk a bit about going makeup free in a few minutes, and I'm excited to kind of get into that conversation. In another study, women who were concerned about their appearance wore more makeup and were more apt to believe that makeup enhanced their social interactions. Now, the researchers felt that this could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Women who are more self-conscious wore more makeup and they judged themselves to be more attractive when wearing makeup. So these women might act more confidently and the people they interact with may respond to that confidence in a more positive way. Now the no makeup look appears to have been adopted by women who are comfortable with themselves and their appearance. It's quite trending. You and I were talking a few minutes ago about Pamela Anderson and

Amy Enos (: 03:25

Yes.

Spencer Moore (: 03:27

It's really amazing. She is one that has gone from one end of the spectrum to the other where she was just full glam mode almost always. And now she wears minimal to no makeup on the red carpet. I find it amazing that she's she's most often called brave for doing this, right?

Amy Enos (: 03:35

It is interesting. And I think, you know, as you're sharing these statistics, right, we're here to talk about makeup and pertinent things that you need to know for your health. But this is not, you know, you should or shouldn't wear makeup. Obviously, people make their own choices. But what's so fascinating to your point is that, first of all, it's assumed that we wear makeup. And if we don't, that that's extraordinary or brave, or maybe it is in Hollywood. Maybe that's different than leading a typical non-Hollywood, non-famous life. But it just fascinates me when you were sharing too the statistics of the makeup purchases with women declining. I live in New England, I'm in Maine, and I think in general, if I were to generalize the average woman in Maine, we don't wear a lot of makeup. So you think about different pockets of the US and personality traits, On the one hand, makeup is self-expression for people, right? And maybe that's empowering, but it could also be really empowering to not wear makeup and to not do that. And then there's the layer on top of that. What are you putting on your face, whether it's every day or once a month? And that actually matters. I don't know, at the end of the day, what empowers you in your self-expression, I think is kind of a neat point of this, but I know you and I are aligned in, we want people to know what's happening and the things they're using and making, if you are going to use makeup, ultimately wanting you to make better choices for yourself if you're thinking about health and wellness and safety. And I was joking with Spencer when we first got on this call was that, Normally, if I go on a podcast and there's video, I will often put a little makeup on. And I didn't today. was just like, no, you know what? Today's the day that I'm not going to do it. Because I generally will only wear makeup maybe, maybe twice a month, you know, if there's a date night or something special. So yeah, the whole Pamela Anderson, what she's doing and, you know, I, I love that too, for the spectrum of youth

Spencer Moore (: 05:34

Yeah.Sure.

Amy Enos (: 05:54

and what's happening with these teens and these tweens and the ungodly amount of products they're using, to see someone, again, because they often look to Hollywood, right? So to see this person that is like, you know what? I'm not wearing makeup. Yeah, that's very inspiring to me. I love that.

Spencer Moore (: 05:54

Yes. Right? I think it is very inspiring. you I have to say, you and I were talking about how, you know, this conversation just in general that we're having, we were kind of forced in a way to adopt new lifestyles. I I mean, you were faced with a late stage cancer diagnosis of your mom that shifted a lot for you. I was also faced with a breast cancer diagnosis and...a lot of chronic health problems. I just didn't have answers. They didn't have solutions. And so, you you got into, you specialized in low-tox living and I decided that I needed to really clean up my life, which is how I found you. I found you on Instagram because you were specializing in low-tox and I was entering that era, that era of my life. And, know, I have to say there's a big mind, mindset shift here and it's challenging. And I think that in the beginning I was very angry. I really felt like I was losing options and I was losing choices in my life. I had to eliminate certain things from my diet, then I had to eliminate, I had to change some clothing that I wore. The beauty and the makeup products were really hard for me. It just felt so overwhelming. But I think that there was this shift that happened where I realized that I wasn't losing choices and I wasn't losing options. Was gaining options. I was now educated enough to say, I'm choosing to put these products on my body. It wasn't dictated by trends or celebrities or what I thought that I was supposed to look like. It was dictated by how is the best way that I can support my body for what it's going through and I can lessen the body burden, which we'll talk about. And that to me has become very empowering to be able to say, I know about these things now. I've been well informed and now I'm going to make the choices for me as an individual. Right? Yeah.

Amy Enos (: 08:01

And that in itself is so powerful for you to share because I talk to lots of people on the internet and when you first start down this journey, it's super overwhelming. Super overwhelming because you feel like you have to tackle this entire staircase instead of just taking one step at a time. But also there's often something that switches. There's something happening in someone's life that brings us to light because I I mean, the amount of money and power tied up in the personal care products industry and what we're putting on our bodies every day has literally set the stage for everything we thought we should be doing or assume we should be doing or how we're marketed to, how we make purchases. So when you just have something in your life that's monumental and often it's illness. It could be an autoimmune disease, it could be cancer, could be infertility, fertility challenges. Something wakes you up and this shift kind of happens. And to your point, I think it's great that you're sharing that perspective because it's a lot at first and you just have to take a deep breath and start gaining the knowledge and making those choices.

Spencer Moore (: 08:59

Yeah, exactly. It's that. And you know, the same that we talked about in our first episode together about greenwashing, about greenwashing in the grocery stores and about this. This is a very common thread in the beauty industry, in the makeup industry. There is greenwashing as well on makeup, clean makeup brands. And it can be very confusing, right? It can be very overwhelming that you're having to choose clean makeup brands to begin with. But then it's a question of which clean makeup brands do I need to go to? Right? And that's what we're here for today, is to kind of talk about what are the big things to kind of look out and think about and where can you go to find products that are safe for you and that you feel comfortable using. Right?

Amy Enos (: 10:06

Absolutely. I mean, nothing fires me more, fires me up more than greenwashing as we talked about on your last podcast. I'm excited to get into that.

Spencer Moore (: 10:13

Yeah, Okay, so let's get started. And we're going to start with kind of a big question and let's see where we go with it. But my question to Amy is, does makeup cause cancer?

Amy Enos (: 10:26

Hmm. So I actually don't love this question because I think it could come, it can come across a bit sensationalized. I hope that when someone's listening to your podcast, they understand that this is a really big issue. It's very nuanced. There is no doubt in my mind that the ingredients in our makeup in our skincare, in the things we're using every day have an impact on our health. So I would never come out online or in an interview or in an article and say something like makeup causes cancer because I just think that's a bit misleading. Can ingredients in makeup cause detrimental things to your health? Can they disrupt your endocrine system? Yes. Can there be carcinogenic things? Absolutely, we're gonna talk about talc later. So yes and no, it's nuanced, right? I think when someone's listening to this and they're thinking about makeup, one of the most effective ways that we as consumers have the power to change anything is to change where we spend our dollars. Consumerism, the profit, I I mean, that is the bottom line for these companies. And something I don't think most people realize in the beauty space. And again, I wouldn't necessarily consider myself in the beauty space because I don't wear much makeup. If you know, like we mentioned, however, so many companies are owned by seven or eight big players. So you might be thinking you're buying from this company, but it's actually owned by a super large corporation. And I have a graphic on my Instagram that just shows all the little companies within the major players of beauty. And if you break down 180 some odd companies, it's somewhere in seven or eight corporations that are running the show.

Spencer Moore (: 12:33

So that's crazy. Seven or eight businesses are controlling the entire market, literally. It's wild. you know, it's interesting for me because my background, you know, I'm moving into health advocacy, but my background is branding and marketing. I'm over 20 years a creative professional in that industry. And there's a formula to sell products. It is a quite easy formula once you know it. And one of the parts of that formula is creating brand loyalty, brand trust and brand loyalty. So that way,

Amy Enos (: 12:38

Mm-hmm. It's wild.

Spencer Moore (: 13:02

You know your brand and you just always go back to it. And there are all these words, these kind of buzzwords that can help build that brand trust and loyalty, like organic, non-toxic, clean, safe. I I mean it is, the psychology behind marketing will blow your mind. It will blow your mind. So, you just have to, I think that as you say, as a consumer, we get to choose where we spend our money, but we also get to educate ourselves. And I think those are the two biggest things are educate yourself before you spend your money and know where to spend your money. And that's what this is about. You have to learn. You have to advocate for yourself to learn.

Amy Enos (: 13:42

It's so true. And the part of that that's even, I don't know, more concerning to me is these companies who are doing this marketing. I I mean, this is essentially what greenwashing is. It's deceptive marketing because the words that you just said don't carry meaning. So if a company says, we're non-toxic, we're clean, we're natural, mineral-based. I I mean, there's probably a laundry list of these terms. No one regulates that. So the thing when you're in the low-tox living space and you're trying to make choices where you're seeking out products that don't have harmful ingredients, goodness, I see it all the time. And it's a big part of why I keep showing up online. And I have to be delicate about it, right? Because I'm not here to bash brands and what have you, but I want consumers to understand that just because you see on the front of a product a word, I look on the back and I'm immediately like, okay, well, clearly this is not a product that's free of harmful ingredients. And that's really what fires me up the most. So it just goes to show. On top of, I mean, So they can say these words, the words are unregulated, but the actual industry itself is so unregulated. It's mind blowing to people. People actually don't believe it when they first hear it. They say, well, what do you I mean? It wouldn't be on the shelf if it wasn't safe. No, there is, I don't know. I think the latest statistic that I was aware of is less than 5 % of these personal care products are tested for safety.

Spencer Moore (: 15:04

Yeah, they don't. Yes, What they do test is when there's been a complaint or there's been a problem or a very severe reaction. That's when they might test it. And also the recalls are voluntary. So the company still doesn't have to recall the product unless they choose to. Right? And I think a lot of it lands on whether or not it's getting press or not. Is it giving bad press to the company? And if it's not, then what's the point of doing a multimillion dollar recall? Right? They're not going do it. It's quite, and actually I was quite blown by this is not in beauty and makeup, but it just does speak to the marketing. There's a very famous chocolate. company right now that's in a lawsuit because their chocolate has tested high for lead and cadmium, quite high levels, dangerous levels. And the marketing of this chocolate company says, excellent, says, you know, it has all of these very, these words that would, it would be perceived as safe to the consumers. And so the judge in this case said, you know, we can't believe that you would market this to be safe chocolate. It's obviously not. And the lawyer for this big corporation said,

Well, it's ignorant of the consumers to assume that we meant it. It's just blew my mind. But this is the standard. This is the industry standard. They can say whatever they want on the product. And it's us, the dumb consumers that believe it. Right? But that's why we're here, because we don't want to be dumb anymore. And we're not dumb. It's just about spreading the information. that's, yeah.

Amy Enos (: 16:40

Wow, yeah. Absolutely.

Spencer Moore (: 17:00

OK, so let's talk about how scientists determine the safety of ingredients in cosmetics. I I mean, we're going to get to the meat of the conversation. We're going to talk about what's really in the products. I would love to just kind of understand a little bit about this process of determining what's safe in beauty products.

Amy Enos (: 17:18

Sure. So one of the things that I think it's worth clarifying for people, we had talked about this previously, was the toxicology assessment of when things are looked at in vitro versus in vivo. So just kind of giving some definitions to those. So the main difference when they're testing things in laboratories, it comes into the environment in which the cells are being studied. So in vitro is really what you think of when you think of a lab in a glass in a Petri dish. And the studies are taking place in a non-living environment. So like I said, a test tube, a Petri dish. Cells are often isolated and used in that way. In vivo is actually within something that is actively living. So I think it actually means within the living thing. These studies take place in or on an actual living organisms. So it could be a human, could be a lab animal, or it could be a plant. And so these studies tend to be, I I mean, a bit more challenging to pull off, say, because it takes a bit more effort. And if you're talking about humans, there's consent and studies and all sorts of things of that nature. But it sees the biological processes more in real time and how they would be observed in a natural environment. So when someone starts getting into the toxicology of all this, because I I mean, again, I'm not a toxicologist, right? I'm a pharmacist. So I'm guessing not a lot of our listeners and our audience out there are going to be toxicologists. However, one of the things that you will often hear is this notion, well, the dose makes the poison, right? And so if someone is just a super, super into say some kind of makeup that we know is carcinogenic, it can cause cancer. They might say something like, the dose is the poison. And this is really, it's such a nuanced statement because it's yes and or yes, but, I I mean, you can't, there's no absoluteness to that statement. So when people are trying to minimize people who care about ingredients, this is what they say, right? So Like I said, there is truth to the statement, but there's doses of substances that you can use every day that are fine. We could talk about, I know we're not talking about medications or supplements, but people are doing that, right? And they're taking safe, effective doses every day of their lives. However, if someone chose to take more of that dose, it could kill you. I I mean, that's what an overdose is, essentially. But it's not true of everything. And just generalizing this statement, I think the biggest way to combat or the biggest example of how this isn't true is in the world of endocrine disruptors. And we talked a ton about endocrine disruptors on our previous podcast together, where endocrine disruptors, so just to kind of level set. Those are ingredients, chemicals, things that are in your products or your life or your food packaging or your plastics, right? They're chemicals in the world that have an effect on your endocrine system when they're ingested or in your body or absorbed through your skin. And the truth of the matter is tiny, tiny doses of endocrine disrupting chemicals can have an effect on your endocrine system it does not take much. So, this whole, you know, the dose makes the poison, endocrine disrupting chemicals or EDCs or whatever you want to call them, they are the perfect example of that statement really not holding up because our bodies respond to extraordinarily low doses of EDCs. So I thought that was a really great question and a great way to level set kind of the discussion of how people might approach this.

Spencer Moore (: 21:03

Sure. Yeah, of course. And you know, I have to speak from my own experience of autoimmune disease, chronic illness, early stage breast cancer. I am not the type of person that these people are doing studies on. Right? So I I mean, if they tested their products on me, everything would fail because I would have a response to it. My body is so sensitive. You know, I'm dealing with chronic inflammation and the, you know, the dose makes a poison for me. for my body would be completely different to a body that has healthier pathways and that is functioning a bit better, right? And one of the areas that really opened my eyes was I did genetic testing. I came out positive for a genetic mutation that's called the MTHFR. It's actually quite common in the population. About 40%, they say, has some form of this genetic mutation. And what it does is it limits my detox pathways is kind of the easiest way to put it. There's a lot. It's complex. All of this, human body is so complex. It's so hard to just make it simple. It's not that way. But this isn't talking about, I need to do a five day cleanse and detox my body. It's not that. And that's not typically, that's not what detox pathways are about. But what it does do is it makes me really sensitive. So where somebody could maybe you know, use products on their skin or smoke cigarettes or do something like that. Their body will clear that efficiently and easily. My body doesn't. And so I have to take that into account. So I think that, you know, the biggest takeaway for me in all of this is individual, right? So just because statistics or research shows that this doesn't affect the majority of the recipients of our research, that doesn't I mean that's you, right? It's individually based. And that has really changed me a lot in realizing that I'm special, I'm unique, I'm an individual, and so what works for other people may not work for me, and that's okay, you know?

Amy Enos (: 23:33

I'm so glad you shared that because it's something that, you know, I think a lot of people who have that testing done are, you know, maybe feeling, gosh, what does this I mean for me? And, you know, just hearing someone's story of how you've navigated that and what you pay attention to and, and these blanket statements of, you know, the industry and how we react, it just might not be the case for someone with this mutation.

Spencer Moore (: 24:00

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times you with these mutations tend to have other chronic illnesses or they find out they have this mutation because they're searching for answers to their chronic illness. So it ends up opening Pandora's box in a way. But I find that information gives me so much more calm. Like I said earlier, I can make informed choices that work for me. Right. Healing is never linear. It's never going to continue going up. So it's just these small doses of doing what you can. So all right, let's get into some meat. I'm excited to talk about some of the actual makeup.

Amy Enos (: 24:34

Absolutely. Sure. So I think in terms of the next phase of our conversation, you know, just to give folks a grounding sense of what we're going to be chatting about, I think mineral makeup is kind of where we're going to start. One of the bigger concerns that we often hear about in makeup is often heavy metals. So we definitely want to talk about that. And talc is something that you and I coming off. I I mean, we tried to squeeze it into our last episode and it did not work. So those

those are really meaty things and things that we really want to get into. I don't think I'll talk too long about mineral makeup because it generally isn't one that I would say that I would align with or recommend. Again, at the end of the podcast, and I know in the show notes, you'll have some at least three different options for people to poke at in terms of looking for safe makeup. So why people like mineral makeup, I think is... So there's some pros to it. It generally is not going to have preservatives. It is really using naturally occurring minerals, so iron oxide, zinc oxide, titanium dioxide, and they're ground into these fine powders. They don't contain additives. They don't have the preservatives, the fragrance, which was a big thing we talked about last episode, synthetic dyes. So In general, think the marketing for mineral makeup has been for the person who has sensitive skin, because it generally isn't going to be very irritating, because it doesn't have any of that garbage, none of the fillers, none of the what have you. So some concerns there, obviously when you don't have preservatives or you don't always need a preservative.

Spencer Moore (: 26:19

Right, yeah, well said.

Amy Enos (: 26:30

per se, but if you have certain ingredients, you might need ingredients to kind of stack to have a preservative effect. So essentially, unless you're talking about oil-based products, which are generally going to be stable on the shelf for much longer, once water is in a product, you're gonna need to have some kind of way to preserve that. And we've talked a lot last episode about how preservatives are often where some of these harmful ingredients come into play. That being said, there are products out there that don't necessarily have a harsh preservative, but the ingredients that they're using in the product stack to actually have a preserving effect. There's all kinds of neat things with ferments and things of that nature that are actual naturally occurring things that are a really safe way to preserve. Not going to be the case in the mineral makeup, doesn't actually require. So the longer you keep that mineral makeup though, there is some risk of bacterial growth essentially. I think my biggest concern with the mineral makeup is, and this is maybe a good segue into the heavy metals component, but I generally will tell people to avoid using the loose bare mineral type of makeup.Because it doesn't have those fillers, and again, depending on the brand, that pigment, and we'll talk about what the pigment means in the makeup sense, those heavy metals, and again, particle size is something else we'll talk about, that is literally going straight into your skin. So not only the minerals going straight into your skin, But when you are applying mineral makeup, there's such a greater risk of inhalation because there's loose powder all near where you breathe. the only thing, obviously nobody's talking about injecting makeup into their bodies. That is the fastest way to get any substance into your body. After that is inhalation. So by using mineral makeup, not only are you That's getting to your skin topically through the absorption of your skin, which is an organ that absorbs, right? But by putting that proximal on your face, the risk of inhalation is great as well. So for me, the loose mineral powder makeups are generally not something that I'm using or talking to people about.

Spencer Moore (: 28:45

Right. And I'm happy you mentioned that about absorption, because I think that there's this kind of idea that the way we consume things is basically by eating them, But we absorb through the skin. And I just think it's so underrated.mthe amount of chemicals that go through our skin and into our bodies, into our blood, they cross the blood-brain barrier. I mean, they really, they affect our hormones, our endocrine systems. Like you say, there's a lot that can be absorbed through our skin. And, you know, there's a difference. There's also kind of a risk assessment through toxicology. Experts have terms of what's left on your skin, what's rinsed off your skin. For example, when you have a face wash, you

Amy Enos (: 29:31

Absolutely.

Spencer Moore (: 29:44

You put it on and then you take it off, right? You rinse it off with water. Makeup is left on your skin. You know, some of these makeup brands, they market, it's 24 hour makeup, right? Like, or it's an 18 hour day, you know, foundation. But you think about that. That's clogging your pores, sitting, preventing air, you know, for 18 hours. And some people don't wash their face at the end of the day. know, some people just go to bed. I I mean, it really kind of depends on what your skincare routine is. So I do think that that does play a big role in the types of products. And when you really start learning about the ingredients, how long are you leaving this ingredient on your skin to just be absorbed all day long, right?

Amy Enos (: 30:24

I'm so glad that you brought this up. And this is what's so interesting about when you just have start, you start having a conversation with someone who cares about the same things. These things naturally come up in conversation that we didn't even plan to talk about. But it's in the makeup space. It's such a good point. And it transcends because So much of low-tox living is just getting back to simplicity, to basics, okay? So when you think about, I'm buying this lipstick and it's going to be an 18-hour lipstick, or I'm buying this waterproof mascara, the ingredients that are making those makeup products function for as long as they are, are harmful to your health. There's a reason why they weren't in there in the first place. And the properties of what is keeping that long lasting effect on your lips or that waterproof factor of the mascara. I I mean we didn't even have PFAS on the list to talk about today, but I I mean, it transcends to so many things. I I mean, you think of cookware and everybody loves their nonstick pans. Guess what? Nonstick pans are harmful to your health. What makes tarps and raincoats waterproof is what's going to make your mascara waterproof too. You don't want to be putting that in your eye, right near your eye. So this notion of if something is convenient, it may not be the best choice for you, especially in this realm of what you're applying to your bodies. And that market, I I mean people want that market, right? I I mean, people want easy. But not the people who are really health conscious, I guess, and really tuned into this because they know that they see through that marketing. And it's, you just go along with it until you have, like we mentioned, these things that happen in your life that make you think, huh, okay. Is this a good thing that this mascara is waterproof? Or is this a good thing that this foundation is sitting on my face all day long? I'm really glad you brought that up. Because I think too, when we're talking about skincare or we're talking about hair care and, you know, I I mean, your scalp is a super absorbent part of your body. Skincare, these products are penetrating your skin. Makeup's interesting in that, you know, a bottle of foundation. Good God, if you went to a local drug store or big box store, there might be 20 some odd ingredients in a foundation. some of those ingredients to your point are just going to sit on your skin. That's the point, right? That it's not to penetrate, but some of those ingredients are going to penetrate. So it's just something to kind of be mindful of as you're looking around and shopping for things. And don't be fooled by those easy buzzwords, I guess.

Spencer Moore (: 33:14

Right, exactly. And one of the things that to kind of close up the mineral makeup that I thought was really interesting is when these mineral powders, you like you think about it, you have them in a plastic compact that snaps closed. It doesn't get any air in it. And these mineral compositions, they don't have preservatives and the preservatives can keep it lasting longer and they can also keep it from growing bacteria and mold and just things that you don't want on your face.

Now, another thing also is that people use their fingers. So maybe they have a mineral concealer and they're taking their finger, which is full of bacteria. And then they're putting it on their face. They're putting it back in the product. They're closing the product, keeping the air out. I I mean, this is a breeding ground for bacteria. Those sponges also, those, you know, foundation sponges. So I do think that it's also kind of a little conversation of makeup safety. Right? You know, that two-year-old bottle of mascara that you have in your drawer, probably best let that go. I think mascara is like six months. You know, if you're not done with the tube in six months, toss it and buy a new one. I'm not sure people understand really the expiration dates of their makeup. Right?

Amy Enos (: 34:40

Sure. And a lot of companies will put, I don't have mascara here on my desk, but if, know, say this was a tube of mascara, somewhere on the tube, there's going to be, you know, a visual of an open container. And usually there's a number in there that will have a six or a 12. And that's a cue that, this, I open this, I should only be using it for six months or 12 months or whatever it is. Yeah.

Spencer Moore (: 34:46

so interesting. I didn't even know that. wow. Yeah, that's good to know. One thing we were talking about, the mineral makeup, know, heavy metals is a really interesting conversation to have about makeup because this was another area I was forced to learn about this when my severe eczema, severe chronic eczema became so flared and I had a skin patch test and I came back positive for a handful of metals and a lot of them were in makeup, I was shocked. there's a lot of, for example, chromium and nickel. There are a lot of people that have skin contact dermatitis, skin problems, and this can be coming from your makeup.

Amy Enos (: 35:44

This is such a great point to talk about because again, low-tox living is a spectrum, right? So we have people who are just starting out, just learning, and then there's super extreme people. And again, everybody can fit in where they fit in. so heavy metals for the low-tox extremists are going to be a deal breaker. They don't want to do anything in their life that could impart more heavy metals into their lives than they already are exposed to, because we all are. There's no such thing as being completely non-toxic in your life. That's just impossible. So in the makeup space, for there to be pigment or a shade, a dye,heavy metals are going to be present, right? And so the question becomes, and this is something I think that becomes really important as a consumer advocate is, is the company that you're buying from taking action to use the least amount of heavy metals as possible? And or are they doing third party testing? Because I can guarantee you the average big corporation beauty industry is not going to be testing their products because, I I mean, heavy metals are going to be found. When things come from the earth, there's going to be heavy metals in them, right? but to clarify, these cosmetics products, in terms of having pigment, having shade, which is why people use makeup, right? I I mean, that's the whole point. Those colors, they're either petroleum-based or they're mineral-based, colorants we'll call them or dyes, what have you. So, When I choose makeup to use, I'm actually going to the mineral pigments, which again, that's in the heavy metal zone, right? To me, that is a safer choice than going down the number of contaminants associated with petroleum. I I mean, we could have an entire podcast just about that, but these are the things. I mean, there's really...

Spencer Moore (: 37:43

Yes. Let us know in the comments. Let us know if you want it. We could go there.

Amy Enos (: 37:51

concerning contaminants, carcinogenic contaminants, endocrine disrupting contaminants in that realm. So if there's going to be pigment in your makeup, which again, unless you're using some clear lip gloss or something, you're gonna have heavy metals to some degree. I think, again, the key is, is the company doing third-party testing to try to do what they can? And I think where they're sourcing is important. Again, and this is for the people who are really into this stuff. The average consumer might not want to, but yeah, when you see colors and numbers, those are examples of synthetic colorings, they're dyes, and those are gonna be the petroleum-based ones.When you see words like iron oxide, zinc oxide, titanium dioxide, and they're gonna have numbers and things aligned with them, those are gonna be the mineral-based pigments. And you're just, not gonna find makeup without them. It's just part of what you're gonna see.

Spencer Moore (: 38:48

Yeah, of course. And I think also this is part of educating for the individual. So if you have severe psoriasis, if you contact dermatitis, just to educate yourself that it could be in the pigments of the makeup that you're using. And now look, I have severe eczema. I can use a blue eyeshadow, and it's not going to cause a reaction on my eye, but it's going to cause a reaction in other parts of my body where I have this severe eczema. So it's not always that there's this cause and effect that you would imagine. Sometimes you're really playing detective here to try to figure out what am I putting in my body that's causing this issue? So it's really investigating for the individual.

Amy Enos (: 39:44

Absolutely. I really want to make sure we talk about talc because I think that is probably the biggest.

Spencer Moore (: 39:48

We are. yeah, talc and powder products. Talc has a long history. the reason that talc is used in makeup products is there's two main reasons. One is it helps to absorb moisture. the other is that it gives this kind of silky appearance to the skin. So that's why you see it a lot in powders. You see it in eyeshadows. You can still get that texture, that kind of silky appearance without using talc, but that's just to say that's kind of the main reason that they're in a lot of these products.

Amy Enos (: 40:18

Yeah, I I mean, they have a great role. If you're just strictly looking at functionality, I I mean, they prevent caking, they improve consistency of the product, they kind of make that soft texture. And sometimes they can be used to lighten the pigment, right? So if they're white, it's white by nature. So if they're trying to make a lighter shade, the talc might come in.

Spencer Moore (: 40:26

Talc powder is also known as baby powder, right? I would say that's probably the most common, you know, use of talc powder that I would have known of growing But there's an issue. Talc is organically mixed with asbestos, correct? Yes.

Amy Enos (: 40:57

Yes. So you can't actually talk about talc without talking about asbestos, in my opinion anyway. And this is really the crux of the issue. And there's so much to get into. for people listening, the value of knowing this, you just take one thing away from this podcast is stop buying makeup that has talc on the ingredient list, period, the end.Asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral, so it's been mined for well over Asbestos is known, known carcinogen, known to cause cancer by inhaling these fibers, whether it's in through your nose, in through your mouth. are tiny, tiny fibers. I mean, they're 1,000 times smaller than human hair. So talc and asbestos are often found together in nature. So simplistically speaking, when you get one, you get the other. So when talc products are made, it’s very likely there’s some degree of contamination with asbestos. I’ve heard geologists say in a documentary where you actually can’t separate it. It’s just there. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. So what’s so interesting and knowing how intermingled these are and how hard it is to separate them. I think, you know you go back to the seventies, I think is when Johnson and Johnson was really pushing, I I mean, I don't know when they started pushing the baby powder, but I I mean, we are decades and decades of people just dousing their babies in baby powder, you know, routine after the bath with every diaper change. So at some point around this time, there started to be some scrutiny about asbestos and the harms of it because it has other purposes, right? Asbestos is used in all kinds of other industries and building projects and pipes and all kinds of stuff, right? So.

Spencer Moore (: 42:54

And I think that that's where for me asbestos is so known is that there were some really big class action lawsuits because asbestos was used as I believe it was insulation for a very long time in buildings and these workers that were installing it and people that lived in these buildings with this insulation, they all got lung cancer. They were inhaling these particles. They went into their lungs and it was correlated. It caused their lung cancer. So there were some massive class action

Amy Enos (: 43:14

A very specific type of lung cancer that asbestos is correlated with. It's called mesothelioma. And so the vast majority of mesothelioma is tied to asbestos. So generally speaking, they know when that pops up that that's what's happening for someone. when they started to be some scrutiny of this as a health issue, here we have this gigantic company selling all of this baby powder. I believe it was FDA went to the industry and was like, well, what are we going to do about this? We kind of have to fix this. There's a perfectly good substitute to talc. You can use cornstarch. You can use other Johnson & Johnson was so tied up in that reputation of, well, we can't change it now. We've been marketing this for years and years. So the industry got together to really have this kind of self-regulating solution of like, well, we'll test, we'll test what we're using. And we'll develop a method to kind of self-regulate. And again, this brings me back to the awareness that I want consumers to have is that this industry is the wild, wild West. It regulates itself. It does what it wants. Multiple industries are tied together and waste from this industry, oh we can use that. Where do you think all of the petroleum is coming from? A totally different industry and they're like, makeup's like beauty, let's use that. We have a use for that. I I mean, it's maddening. So what they came up with was this method of, ok and again, I know we talked about last time we were on the podcast together, there's a super documentary on HBO Max called Not So Pretty. And one of the episodes is devoted completely to makeup. And they highlight this and I think this is, mind-blowing when most people realize this. So when the company said, okay, we're going to self-regulate and do this, their method of testing was one teaspoonful out of every 20 tons used to state that their talc was asbestos-free. Now, I don't know the rate at which they would find that, but they went a step further to think about what are the tools we're using? What is the specificity of the tools we're using to even test? Because when you're looking, I mean, asbestos fibers are tiny. Microscopes, we're talking about like a million times the magnification needed to see an asbestos fiber. And so if your microscope needs a million times magnification, the companies were using a 500 times magnification to, hmm, maybe it's not detected, it's not there. And so in kind of the early 2000s, when there was some scrutiny of asbestos being in kids' makeup and play makeup, the companies involved in that were like, well, geez, the where we're getting our talc from was certified asbestos free. This is why, because these certifications often don't I mean anything, because the companies have created a space for themselves to just keep on keeping on and doing what they're doing. you know, I think the last time we spoke, I think the one thing I would tell people when you're just getting into the personal care industry is just don't buy things with the word fragrance on them. Right, period the end. I mean, laundry, shampoo, body lotion, in makeup, do not buy anything with the word talc on it. You don't need it. There's so many safer options out there. And I guarantee you, if you go to a local drug store or a big box store or something convenient, there's gonna be probably at least half, if not more of the products are gonna contain talc. And that's the issue, right? Because if they do, How can you guarantee for yourself or your daughters or your children or whomever in your house is playing or using this makeup that it doesn't have asbestos? And it's not, again, it's not just the application. The real risk is putting blush on, this powder, you inhale that, those asbestos fibers get so deep into your lungs and that's how the mesothelioma comes to be.

Spencer Moore (: 47:41

Yeah. And you know, think that this is also to kind of reiterate what we talked about in our first episode of Body Burden. You know, it's not to say that if you have one eye shadow that it's going to cause you to get lung cancer from the asbestos, but these are drops in a bucket. And if you put enough drops in bucket, it will fill up and it will overflow. And that's where you get chronic illness, you get cancer, you get real health crises. So fear mongering. This is not to say that this is going to cause you some grave illness, but a combination of all these things could potentially cause serious health problems, right?

Amy Enos (: 48:26

Absolutely. And when there's companies out there that have made the conscious choice to not use talc, great, I I mean, go in that lane. Because that, that again goes to my initial point of we have so much power as consumers that honestly, that is that is the only thing that is going to wake up these companies. I I mean, I don't generally talk about food on my Instagram and on the internet. However, if you are online right now, there is a lot of attention on food dyes and additives in cereals, and it's getting traction and it's causing major shifts. And so the same thing needs to happen in the personal care products industry. So I can't tell your audience how important it is that you start making these changes if you are passionate about this stuff because it's where you spend your dollars that will ultimately bring change.

Spencer Moore (: 49:21

Of course. you know, the thing that really cemented talc for me was, I watched the Not So Pretty documentary. I really suggest people seeing this. now I also will caveat this by saying it's a documentary. It is a shock value documentary. And there are people that are online, they're saying, it's been overblown. I I mean, it does. It has a narrative, right? The narrative is to tell a story, but do your research, you know, look into it if you want to. There's a lot of studies. There's a lot of documentation that you can read about this. For me, what made the talc so cemented was I went to Sephora And I noticed, I think the Sephora here in Barcelona, there's four different kind of clean makeup brands that they're offering now. And none of them offered any products with talc. So we're talking, there was no foundational powder. There was no eyeshadow. There was no blush. Now they did offer liquid eyeshadow. They offered liquid blush and a foundation that was like a matte foundation. But I remember asking somebody that worked at Sephora, where's the eyeshadow? They said, it's so strange. They don't offer eyeshadow. They don't offer powders. Now look, if talc was not a thing, then why is it not in any of the clean makeup brands that are coming out?

Amy Enos (: 50:44

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Spencer Moore (: 50:46

Right? I mean, it's not in none of them. So that to me shows that the beauty industry knows these big companies they know, and these these other companies are coming out the clean lines. You know, they're doing it to be safer. What they're offering and the safer option is no talc Right.

Amy Enos (: 51:03

Absolutely, every time.

Spencer Moore (: 51:06

every time. Yeah. So what I want to talk about

hat I have here that was from: 2024

Amy Enos (: 52:00

It's so hard to make that guarantee. It really just is. I think in terms of someone who's trying to make informed decisions and feel like they have some control over what they're putting on their bodies, it is just not worth the risk.No, it's not.

Spencer Moore (: 52:41

also have another, and this to me is really disturbing. There's a study done in 2019. The FDA actually issued warnings after finding asbestos in children's products from Claires and Beauty Plus. In 2020, the environmental working group also found significant asbestos contamination in children's makeup palettes. So like these are children, their bodies are developing, their immune systems. I I mean, these drops in their buckets are significant, right? It's just, it's scary.

Amy Enos (: 52:45

Absolutely. One other ingredient I want to touch upon before we finish our chat today, because I get a lot of questions about this, is titanium dioxide. Because that is, I think, a buzzword or a buzz ingredient that has reached the mainstream space. So just to give some light into what titanium dioxide, when it is concerning, when it's not concerning. And I think Most people have heard of it because of there's a major lawsuit with Skittles. As a food ingredient, it is not allowed in the EU. So it's been banned in Europe for well over two years. In Europe, which often people will compare US to EU standards, and I think we touched upon this last time, the EU is undoubtedly better than the US, but it's not perfect. You still have to look, you still have to be an advocate. But so titanium dioxide is permitted in Europe in medicinal or cosmetic products. Okay, so where I see titanium dioxide most in personal care is going to be in sunscreens or in makeup. I personally use sunscreen that contains titanium dioxide. The difference or the reason why I'm comfortable with that is because of the particle size. So titanium dioxide in my sunscreen is going to have a description of non-nano particle, meaning not nano or not small, meaning it's bigger. So that sunscreen is actually going to sit on top of my skin. I don't have absorption concerns per se because of that particle size. Similarly, in the makeup that I'm choosing because I don't want synthetic petroleum-based dyes or pigments or colors. I'm going with the companies that are using iron oxides, titanium bioxides, but I also want them to be non-nanoparticle. So I think that's a really important distinction because people see that ingredient and they're immediately, I don't think this is something I should use. And in the right application, it is OK. Titanium dioxide is known to have risk of inhalation. So the powder form is a potential carcinogen. I I mean, if you look at Prop 65, it's airborne titanium dioxide, which isn't gonna be the case if it's in the contour stick that I'm applying to my lips or in the sunscreen that I'm applying. So I just wanted to mention that because that's a question that comes up quite often.

Spencer Moore (: 55:09

Yeah, no, I think that that's very important. So I wanted to move on from you talking about the nanoparticles because actually we have that under aerosol products that we wanted to touch on because nanoparticles are quite know I've eliminated talc because it's just it's been necessary for me but the other thing that I've eliminated 100 % that I just don't go near with a 10 foot pole is aerosols. I just don't go there. And that's been a big shift for me. Look, I grew up with my grandmother and my mother and hairspray and you know, I mean, just, yeah, let's talk about aerosols. How do you feel about them?

Amy Enos (: 56:08

I am right there with you. When people ask me, you I I mean, it often comes up in sunscreen, it comes up with dry shampoo, obviously hairspray, but I don't think you hear as much of people using hairspray anymore. It's kind of funny. Think about the market for hairspray. But it's always a safer option to not use an aerosolized product. Again, it goes back to this, the rapidity of a chemical getting into your body. by inhalation is going to be quite fast, right? So it's going to be much quicker than, you know, if you're talking about dry shampoo that you're applying to your scalp, there's going, and you're not aerosolizing that. It could be absorbed by the skin on your scalp, right? And so your scalp is super absorbent, your underarms, your groin area, those are some of the most absorbent parts of your body. If you're aerosolizing dry shampoo and you're inhaling that, And you don't have control. And you can't just say, I'm not inhaling. It happens so involuntarily. it's just a no-brainer. I I sure, I know that applying sunscreen to your body or your children is a pain in the butt. I know aerosolized products are easier, but it's just a quicker way for these harmful ingredients to get into your body and often cause more harm. So maybe topically, there might not be an issue. It's just a deal breaker. It's just, again, if you're getting into this space and you're looking for simplicity, you're looking for, just tell me one thing to do. And we've talked about some of these kind of hacks, easy peasy, just don't buy aerosolized products.

Spencer Moore (: 57:56

Yeah, yeah. I I mean, I think that this comes back to what you said at the beginning about convenience. You know, I I mean, look, the waterproof mascara, yeah, it's convenient, lasts all day and you can go swimming and still have eyelashes. But is it healthy? Is it the right choice to be making? you know, for me, in dealing with chronic lot of times I find that making smaller, harder choices now makes my life so much easier later. Right? I mean, these choices all add up, you know, 100%. One thing I did read about the aerosol products is that, there are major gaps in understanding the long-term exposure of a lot of these aerosol products. One of these things that I just cringed when I saw is that they have these face sprays now that a lot of younger people are using and they spray like a black color on the face. It's to find, maybe they're white, it's to find hairs, to be able to find all of the hairs on the face. And these kids, You know beauty and just you know beauty influencers I see but are spraying so close all over their face To find the hairs and I just I cringe I really do And I don't think that there's an understanding of just how dangerous it is in your nose You know and these these products also I I mean our nose is such a great filter for us You know it really does filter out a lot of things, but then you know these products go up your nostrils And they just sit there So yeah, I think for me it's easy choice.

Amy Enos (: 59:31

Absolutely. you you think of that generation and those kind of viral products and things these younger people are doing, which I feel like now I can say now because I'm in my 40s and, you know, I talk about younger people. But they're certainly not at a stage where they're thinking about long term consequences. I I mean, you just feel invincible when you're at that phase of life. And I think Like we said in this podcast many times, people who find themselves on this path, and not always, I mean, sometimes people are just super health motivated and they don't have to have a significant diagnosis or experience with fertility or something that puts them on this path. But you will find time and time again that there's value. And sure, is the liquid blush that you're going to buy from a non-toxic company may be going to cost a little more than the blush you can get at the drugstore down the street. Of course it is because it's safer and it's an investment in your health. It's kind of like you pay now or you pay later and what does that I mean to you? And that's a personal decision for sure. wow, I didn't even know about that spraying.

Spencer Moore (: 1:00:32

Right? It's terrible. it's so terrible. And I have to say, you touched on this in our previous episode. I really recommend anybody listening to this if you're interested in this to check out our previous episode because we really do go into a lot in that You touched on this, that it's more expensive to make a clean, safe product these days. Much more expensive for the companies.

Amy Enos (: 1:01:10

Absolutely. It takes, I I mean, that's why I don't think everybody's doing it because it takes a tremendous amount of effort to make a product that if there's a brand that's truly talking the talk and walking the walk, the effort to source the ingredients that are clean, that don't have impurities, that aren't contaminated, whatever, what have you, then you make the product. The companies that are actually clean and stand by their non-tox promise or we truly are clean or whatever company you're talking about, they're gonna do third party testing. That's not free, right? So absolutely, I think as a consumer, you have to know that going the surface cleaner that I use to clean my kitchen, is certainly going to cost more than what I would get at the local grocery store. But again, I'm inhaling it every day of my life. And so that there's tremendous value in me, in my opinion, to do that. Right. So it is something where you think about these kids and what they're spraying on their face and they're invincible and they're not thinking about their health. And as things happen in your life or maybe as you age, you just you get more tuned into this stuff and you you really do start caring.

Spencer Moore (: 1:02:04

Yeah, you really do start caring. One thing I find interesting is there are a lot of makeup brands that put on the label that it is cruelty animal, cruelty free. that they don't test on animals, right? a lot of makeup products were tested on animals and that has shifted now, but. I think now there needs to be a further shift of how is this tested and where is this tested, right? Because it's like we talked about in vitro and in vivo, you know, these matter. So yes, it is important that they're not tested on animals, but we as humans are using these. So where is it being tested? Right? There needs to be more transparency.

Amy Enos (: 1:03:07

Yeah, is it even being tested? I I shared this in October. There was a company marketing a mascara to cancer survivors. And it had ingredients in it tied to carcinogenic contaminants. I just, shared it with my audience. was like, this is what we're up against. The average consumer who just literally is buying what they're putting out there, believing what's being said. This is how deceptive the marketing is and it's like, how, I I mean, it's bad enough to have the conscience to do this and what these companies are doing, but in breast cancer awareness month, how dare you market a clean mascara? Oh my goodness. Yeah. It's, it's, it's ugly.

Spencer Moore (: 1:03:44

Yeah, yeah. Look, normally don't have a lack of words. I always have something, but that honestly just makes me a bit speechless. You know, I think that it's quite shameful. know, the greenwashing is already playing up on a really sensitive pain point of consumers. You know, they're looking to be healthier. Maybe they have had cancer. Maybe they have had, you know, severe health crises and issues. So the greenwashing makes me feel so angry anyways that they're taking advantage of people that want to do better for themselves and their loved ones. But to do something like that, to touch on such a sensitive pain point of cancer survivors, I think is just absolutely shameful. It's terrible. Mm-hmm.

Amy Enos (: 1:04:41

It absolutely is. It's maddening. And it's why I continue to do what I do, because it's not getting any better in the short term, I'll tell you that. Greenwashing has been probably at its all time worst, because I do think consumers are starting to pay attention to what they put on their bodies. I I mean food, fitness, that has always been where people turn first with health.And I think there's an awareness that's shifting. And so more and more of these companies are saying non-toxic. I I just had a girlfriend recently share an influencer who was sharing this teeth whitening toothpaste strips and mouthwash. And she's like, check out this lady. She's marketing this. And she's literally saying, OK, here's my certified non-toxic. And I look up the company and I'm like, first of all, these words don't I mean anything. Second of all, there are harmful ingredients in what this person is putting out there. And it's just, it's never been worse. Really, the greenwashing has never been worse. So all the more reason to having a platform where you're talking about women's health issues and awareness and empowerment. I just I I mean that's honestly why I'm back here. I think your mission aligns so much with what I do myself online. And it's just...I'm really thankful for the chance to impart that knowledge and awareness onto other people who are listening.

Spencer Moore (: 1:06:10

Yeah, well, it's such a pleasure to have you back. I loved the conversation. We are very aligned. And I think that it's like we said at the beginning, though. I I mean we are here because we've had to change. And once you go through that transformation, I think that for a majority of people, it's like, let me help other people who have to go through this change, right? It's just kind of a human level of compassion. Yeah, this was pretty hard. Let's share this information so that other people who are going through it can maybe have it easier. Yeah. Yeah. So we are we're wrapping up, which is quite sad, but it's good because we're getting to the closing segment, the Pluck This! Segment of the Hairy Chin Podcast. It's where

Amy Enos (: 1:06:42

Amen.

Spencer Moore (: 1:06:53

We offer tangible takeaways for our audience. And Amy has a packed full, Pluck This! Segment today on our special episode. And I'm so excited to segue into this after we've been talking about greenwashing, because these companies in this offer do not greenwash. They are transparent. They have clean ingredients, and they are safe. And so let's talk about the first offer, These are companies that Amy would recommend that sell makeup. the first one, now Amy is a makeup minimalist, as she said, but if she is going to do some minimalistic makeup, her go-to will be Pure Haven. We talked about Pure Haven in our last episode. We kind of got into it about the product and their mission. Now Pure Haven, they have everything that you'll need for a natural look. they have no synthetic dyes, no talc, no fragrance, and they do third party testing. will automatically get 15 % off with the link that I will have in the show notes.

Amy Enos (: 1:07:52

Yeah, think, you know, when I think I get this question a lot online and people want to know what makeup would you use? And I always give that caveat of I don't actually wear a lot of makeup. because people want to know what I'm using. Right. So here's the makeup I'm using. But if someone is really into makeup, there just might not be the selection. I I mean Pure Haven is going to have, you know, lash products, mascara, contour sticks for color blushes, lip gloss. things about the skin tints, liquid foundation for a natural look. I think the person that's looking for, so I'm not a makeup person. The person that is a makeup person and is looking for clean makeup, there's two other companies that I like to share. And so the other one is a company called Crunchi and it ends in an I instead of a Y. And they are more, a makeup company. I I mean, makeup is their thing where last episode when we were talking about Pure Haven, Pure Haven is kind of one stop shopping for your personal care. So everything you need for your home, right? They're not a makeup company. They just offer some makeup. Crunchi is a makeup company. Crunchi has probably three or four times the shade offerings than the skin tints of Pure Haven So if someone's wanting more options, that is certainly an option. I know, I believe the link for your show notes gives 10 % off for that one. And then the other company which I love to share about online and another awesome female owned company out of Virginia is called With Simplicity. And the reason why I love sharing this one too is this company actually ships to Canada, which is not true of the previous two companies. So with simplicity, also there's a discount code that'll be in the show notes. I think it's LOWTOX10 We'll give you a discount as well. All three doing great things in the clean makeup space. And again, it just depends on kind of what you're looking for and the extent of what you're looking for. So it's nice to give people some tangible options to look for some clean makeup.

Spencer Moore (: 1:09:47

Yes. Yes, it is. And also Amy's Instagram. I can't say enough about it. Her platform that she has, she also has a great newsletter. These will all be linked in the show notes. Her Instagram is lowtoxpharmacist. She's Amy. And it's a great platform where she shares so much information. So talking about tangible takeaways, you can always find something tangible on her platform. Yeah.

Amy Enos (: 1:10:33

Thank you so much for bringing that up. Something we could put in your show notes as well is I like to give people something if they opt into my free newsletter where I just, have a list of five completely free low-tox things you can do now, right? Things that are going to be better for your health that don't cost a thing. So I'll make sure you have that in the show notes so you can share with anybody that does want to opt into the newsletter. that sounds fantastic, will add it into the resource section. So we are getting to the end to wrap this up what are some kind of steps that women can take to reduce their exposure to kind of these harmful chemicals?

Amy Enos (: 1:11:13

I think one thing we haven't really talked about, and again, this might not align with everybody, is maybe consider not wearing makeup every day. Because something that I didn't state on this podcast that's absolutely true, because people tend to try to be perfectionists when they get to this space, when they're on this path, and it's not ever about being perfect. We're all human, we all make choices. But the things that you do every day matter so much more than the things that you do once in a while. So maybe consider if you're someone who's really into makeup, do you need to wear makeup every day? That would be a really market change you could make, not only for your health, but also your makeup's gonna last longer if you're not using it every day. Certainly look on a label, right? I mean nobody expects the average consumer to be a toxicologist or pharmacist or chemist, but...Look for some of these key words. If you see fragrance, if you see synthetic dyes, if you see talc, just put it back. It's really as simple as that. And if you're curious, it's okay to ask questions of a company. I think people don't usually go the extra effort to do this, but if you found some lip gloss or mascara that you love that is claiming to be clean or non-toxic or whatever buzzword they're using, be an informed consumer. Ask the manufacturer, do you do third party testing? What do you want to know as a consumer that you would ask for? I I mean, think the Pluck This! Segment is great because people don't have to do that. They can just go into the recommendations coming off the podcast episode. But don't be shy. It's OK to demand from these companies and to ask these questions. The other thing, you know, I always say is, again, we talked about waterproof mascara and all those things we want, we want easy as as humans as consumers. And so a lot of people will often go to apps to say, okay, is this clean? Is this not? And, you know, the apps are flawed and we can't get into it as we're wrapping up. But I would just caution people from 100 % relying on that. I think if you kind of are looking for these key things to take away, is it non-nanoparticle? And maybe it doesn't say it on the label, but the company will tell you that. So you don't have to assume that it's not. I think some companies will go the extra mile to put non-nanoparticle on the label. But you see mineral. mineral based products, makeup that you're buying, just ask, you know, and don't rely 100 % on those apps because they're not perfect. They're pay for play, formulations change. So I think maybe take a little of that power back for yourself.

Spencer Moore (: 1:14:08

Yeah, and I do think that I like what you say that you can ask. We can ask questions and we can demand answers the information. are the consumers. At the end of the day, the company doesn't exist without people buying their product. So transparency, we deserve transparency. And I think that as females, it's important to feel empowered and to feel confident to know that we deserve this information.

Amy Enos (: 1:14:30

Absolutely.

Spencer Moore (: 1:14:40

We deserve safe products and we deserve to ask questions. The shrinking violet is no longer, right? I I think that women are really finding their voices and realizing that they're sick. It's like I've said in another episode, 80 % of autoimmune disease are female led. We're a sick population. And so it's important for us to really demand answers to live our healthiest, best lives.

Amy Enos (: 1:14:47

Yes, yes, and yes.

Spencer Moore (: 1:15:09

okay, Amy, what an amazing second episode that we've done together. It's been so fun.

Amy Enos (: 1:15:18

Thank you so much for having me. really, I love the opportunity to keep talking about these things and help impart some of these, know, statistics and facts and just easy things for folks to remember. So thank you so much for having me.

Spencer Moore (: 1:15:32

Thank you so much for being here. It has been an honor.

Thanks for joining us on The Hairy Chin Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please head over to www.spencerita.com to join our creative community. I'm Spencer Moore reminding you that knowledge isn't just powerful, it's empowering. When you know better, you do better. So stay strong, keep going, and I'll see you next time.