Ep 6: Low-Tox Living and Navigating Toxins in Personal Care with Pharmacist Amy Enos

Spencer Moore:

Welcome to the Hairy Chin Podcast. I'm Spencer Moore, your host, here to explore the good, the bad, the hairy and the fabulous of female health. Join us for eye-opening conversations, myth-busting insights, and relatable stories that celebrate the realities of womanhood. And don't miss our Pluck This! segment for tangible takeaways from each episode. Life takes a village, let's do this together.

Spencer Moore:

Hi, Amy! Thank you so much for being here.

Amy Enos:

You're very welcome. I'm super excited for this chat, actually. Don't know how we're going to cover it all, but I'm excited to see where our conversation goes.

Spencer Moore:

I know, I know, we've been chatting these past days with kind of our outline for the topic, and we have so much we want to cover. So it's very exciting. Okay, I'm going to start with a little introduction. Amy Enos has been a pharmacist for 17 years. You have a Doctor of Pharmacy degree and it's quite hilarious because you say that the majority of your career has been focused in geriatrics, which you call not so sexy.

Amy Enos:

If it's true, it's true.

Spencer Moore:

Amy calls herself a nontoxic enthusiast and an ingredient detective. You have an incredible Instagram account called @lowtoxpharmacist, where she helps busy AF humans go toxin free without the overwhelm.

Amy Enos:

So happy to be here.

Spencer Moore:

So I've found that I really like starting off these interviews on The Hairy Chin Podcast with some statistics, because I think statistics are quite straightforward a lot of times numbers don't lie.

Our topic today is about low tox living ingredients and ways to kind of learn more about what we're putting in and on our bodies. And in my research for this episode, I could have chosen 50 statistics. They're really shocking. The information that is available, but almost still hidden from the general population about what type of toxins we have in our life. So I'm going to start with just a couple.

On average, women use 12 personal care products daily. This exposes them to 168 different chemicals in one day.

Up to 75% of fragrances and personal care products contain phthalates chemicals linked to endocrine disruption, productive harm and birth defects.

Parabens, a common preservative in skincare, have been found in 99% of breast cancer tissue samples. Parabens mimic estrogen in the body, potentially increasing breast cancer risk.

The last one I'll add is about FDA regulation of the beauty and cosmetic industry. According to the FDA website, neither the law nor FDA regulations require specific tests to demonstrate the safety of individual products or ingredients. The law also does not require cosmetic companies to share their safety information with the FDA.

Amy Enos:

So it's wild, isn't it? Wild?

Spencer Moore:

It's wild. I mean, it's really disappointing to feel so vulnerable that we're not being protected by. And this is the United States, this is the United States Food and Drug Administration, the FDA. But it is a very vulnerable feeling to just not be protected.

Amy Enos:

This totally reinforces why it's so great to have a conversation like this, because it's an issue that so few people know about. There's so many people that still need to hear this. So I'm glad that we're talking about this today.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, I am as well. I would love to hear Amy as we kind of start off to hear your story about how you became a nontoxic enthusiast and an ingredient detective. Can you tell the listeners a bit

Amy Enos:

So although, you know, I am a pharmacist and I've been a pharmacist, you know, close to 20 years now, which is wild to me. I really think the thing that I talk about most when I talk about what propelled me down this path is being a daughter to someone who lost their parent to cancer. And, you know, cancer is a big thing. That I kind of talk about on my Instagram and my own personal experience, and there's a huge spectrum there. I'm talking about a stage four cancer diagnosis of my mom completely out of left field. You know, so you're going along, you're living your life, and then all of a sudden, whoa, everything comes crashing down and it changes.

And so that is really what propelled me to start peeling the onion and trying to find out, okay, where did this come from? And, you know, I can speak to pharmacy school. I can't speak to all medical professions, but I think thematically this transcends that cancer is presented to us as a genetic disease. Or at least it was 15, 20 years ago when I graduated pharmacy school in ‘07.

u know, my mom passed away in: 2020

Spencer Moore:

Okay. It's a really beautiful and inspiring story. And it's important to share because, you know, my being a breast health educator, I educate women of breast cancer. And, and a lot of women think because there's a BRCA gene now with the genetic testing that, you know, oh, if I'm BRCA negative, then I really don't have to worry about breast cancer. And it's like I want to just scream, no, no, it's 8 to 10% of breast cancers are genetic. It's like it's, you know, within those statistics you mentioned. So, you know, and one of the things that I think is kind of, you know,

malaligned is that, you know, the other 90% are considered environmental, but I'm not really sure people understand what that means environmental. You know, to me, it seems like it's like, oh, it's, you know, cigarette smoke or, possibly pesticides that are put on, you know, the crops. But environmental is every single thing that is in our environment. And it's, it's this is where I think people can feel so duped is that they think that they're safe with their beauty products and their hair sprays and their, you know, like room fragrance, you know, or, you know, all of the chemicals they use in their kitchen, all of these add up. These are the environmental factors of cancer.

Amy Enos:

Absolutely, absolutely. Because I think when I spend a lot of time talking to people about this, obviously, and the people who are drawn to this conversation are people who desire health, right? It's a health minded individual. And generally speaking, when people are on a health journey, they start, you know, no fault of their own. It's just the norm that they start with fitness, they start with nutrition and looking at those things. And people don't think about, wow, I am exposing myself every day in my daily routine, in what I'm cleaning my home with. You know, there is this misalignment or this just doesn't fit. People don't realize like, oh, if they say, oh, I have shampoo, they're not thinking, oh, there might be 25 ingredients in my shampoo and some of those might be harmful to my health. It's it's just not something most people are kind of tuned into.

Spencer Moore:

Right. And I think also it's, you know, a lot of people that go down this journey of learning about how to reduce toxins in your life, it's because they have to, maybe they've been diagnosed with cancer or our family member has been diagnosed. And then at that point it becomes very overwhelming. You've already been diagnosed with something that is very scary. And then you think, okay, I don't want this to get worse. I don't want it to come back. I don't want it to be diagnosed with secondary cancer. How can I improve my health? And it is like you run into a brick wall because it is to the sky of how much information there is to learn about all of this.

So I think that one thing I love so much about your account, with what the information you shared is, you would take us into the pharmacy with you, you would take your phone, you would record yourself saying, these are the products as a pharmacist that I would buy. And I would put on my skin and my family's skin. And that to me, took away so much overwhelm because you really broke it down in a really simple way. And, and I appreciate that so much. That makes me so happy to hear. Well, I do I it was it's it's a I love you you're going for. Hi I'm Amy, you're low tox pharmacist.

Amy Enos:

And you know what is funny, I don't work in those pharmacies. So in my pharmacy career, I have a very different practice setting. So, you know, people would see me in these pharmacies and they would just assume probably that I'm walking out from behind the counter, but not the case. So not in the case, not me. I got to get back in the pharmacy. It's been a while since I've gone in there and done one.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, there are such great videos. I watched so many of them multi-part videos. So you have to be like part 20 and loved it right at the moment. Okay, so we talked a little bit about, these environmental chemicals and there's some trending ingredients, I think, that have been going around ten of these words that people are saying avoid at all cost or, you know, and and later we'll talk about product labeling, which I think is a hugely important conversation. But I kind of wanted to go through some of these trending ingredients with you and let you kind of explain what these are and why they're in our products and, and which ones we really do need to avoid.

Amy Enos:

Sure. The thing that kind of you mentioned, and I think we're a lot of people find themselves is and as we started our chat today, this is not a fun conversation initially. Right? It's very dark. It's it can feel overwhelming and scary. And that's why it's so important to talk about these ingredients, you know, and we'll talk about product labeling and marketing in a little bit. But I always tell people the back of the bottle, it tells you. It tells you if it's clean or not, right. Companies can put whatever they want on the front, but we're going to be looking at the back. So getting into some of these key ingredients, I think is a super part of this conversation. So three so we're going to talk about five different ingredients that people might be hearing about. I'm actually really pleased to see recently, probably in the last year I see a lot more, I would say mainstream media bringing up these issues right outside of the recalls that we might see. There might be these articles about what we're putting on our selves as women, as our on our children, etc. so people are, I think, are starting to be more aware of these terms. So three of the five are really closely tied together. So I want to kind of talk about those three first. So that being endocrine disruptors phthalates and fragrance. And so I'm going to kind of break down each of those. But thematically those have a lot of overlap. So we'll start with endocrine disrupting chemicals or endocrine disruptors or edcs, whatever you want to call them. So these are ingredients or chemicals, that they either mimic, they block, they interfere with hormonal function in your body. Right. So we have hormones that do all kinds of functions in our body, all tied into our endocrine system. And so anything that interferes with how our body normally functions in that capacity, you could be considered an endocrine disrupting chemical. Probably one most people have heard of is BPA. So in a water bottle or in baby bottles, you might see something, say BPA free. So BPA mimics estrogen, right. And so that would be considered an endocrine disruptor because when it's in your body, it's making your body think that estrogen is sitting there versus the BPA that's sitting there. So these are basically naughty chemicals. They just disrupt your normal function in the endocrine system. So really closely tied with that. And one that I've seen in the news quite a bit recently is phthalates, which is a really funny word. It looks really funny. Most people don't know how to spell it, how to say it. And there's, there's kind of two different ways to talk about phthalates because a lot of people will ask me food questions on my account, and I don't really touch food with a ten foot pole because the personal care industry is a beast in itself. That, I mean, someone could make their whole career about our food industry and and all that stuff. But phthalates does have something to do with food, so I'll just mention it. There as well. So phthalates are chemicals in the personal care space. They kind of like the the easy word to think about is maybe a plasticizer. They're chemicals that are used to retain the scent, a fragrance product. So, in food, in the food kind of realm, they make plastics more soft and flexible. So PVCs, polyvinyl chloride or number three plastics, have phthalates, and you're not necessarily going to see that on the label. But in the personal care space, the real connection and the real concern where you're going to see a pop up is in fragranced products.

And so fragrance is another one of those ingredients. And this is probably the number one tip that I give people, because people get very overwhelmed with chemical names. Most people aren't pharmacists. Most people don't even care to learn all the details, right? Like we just wanted easy solution and something easy to remember. So if you take away one thing from this podcast, I would say do not purchase products that have the word fragrance on the back of a label. In the U.S., we are advertise to constantly smell. If you think about laundry, commercials, you know, scented candles, what is your home smell like? Does your laundry smell clean? Smell, smell, smell? Fragrance is one of the easiest things to remove from your personal care products. In terms of going down a health path and not having to remember ingredient names. But it also is going to have one of the biggest impacts in terms of bang for your buck. It's easy and it's effective. Right. So fragrance just to define what that means for people. Because again, most people don't realize this is even a thing. They turn. You might have a product that you go into the store and you're finding and you're like, oh, this only has eight ingredients in it. This looks pretty clean and fragrance is on the label, so fragrance can hide, I'm not kidding, thousands of chemicals behind the word. I know we probably are going to get a little bit into legislation in this conversation, but, there's a big lack of regulation in this industry. And one of the older acts which we're going like 80, probably almost 90 years now out from that cosmetics act, which made fragrance proprietary for companies. So any chemical a company is using to send to product and then again to hold the scent, phthalates, which are endocrine disruptors, okay. That's not disclosed. So for me, I see the word fragrance on the label, and I put it back on the shelf like it's just a deal breaker for me.

Spencer Moore:

So when you say proprietary, what you mean is that it's considered a trade secret, correct. For that company. And so they therefore do not have to disclose anything. Any of the chemicals that create their fragrance for their product is a secret. And from what I understand, it's kind of just become a dumping ground for companies to hide products that may not be the most safe for the consumer because they don't have to disclose it 100%.

Amy Enos:

Such a great summary. And this is why, you know, sometimes I get a pushback from people. I mean, I work on the internet, so there's a spectrum of people and how they interact with other people. Right. And so some people will push back on this. And for me personally, if I see the word fragrance, I'm immediately distrusting because why would you not if you were truly making a clean product? And I put clean in quotations for those who are seeing this on video. If you were making a clean product, why would you just not list all the things you're using to scent your product by putting the word fragrance? To me, it breeds. There's something that they don't want me to know. So just very simply black and white. I just don't buy it.

Spencer Moore:

I'm curious about, I've been wanting to ask you this. I didn't have it in our notes, actually. What about perfume? Because perfume is just fragrance, do you use any perfume? Do you suggest people to never use perfume?

Amy Enos:

So one of the things, down here that we were going to talk about at the end of the podcast was what are products? You'd never use again? Yes. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Perfume. Perfume. To me it's just and there are again, I haven't really invested the time into looking into some of these companies because there are very few companies out there that propose to be clean perfume companies. You know, in terms of no phthalates, whatever. All the all these things, I've not dug into it because to me, first of all, I'm a minimalist, I'm a simplistic person, and so I don't feel like I need perfume. Right. It's just to me it's it's not I certainly am not buying conventional perfume. Right. And I cringe when I walk by certain stores at the mall with my teens.

Spencer Moore:

I think about their employees. I think about these really spend all day spraying people with perfume that are in these stores that have all these scented products, and I just think I feel so terrible for the employees that have to live in that environment eight hours a day.

Amy Enos:

You're so right. And that and that transcends to so many different things in this conversation. You know, hairstylists, people who are who have professional environmental exposure because we as just women going through our routines, our exposure can be pretty severe in itself. And then if you're if you're doing that eight hours a day on top of your I mean, yeah, I think about that too. It's it's pretty it's pretty terrible. So sometimes people come to me looking for a perfume company to purchase from. And I actually don't generally make a recommendation because to me, it's just, you know, you could use that money for something else. You know, there's yeah, there's plenty of scented lotions and oils and things that are safe. And so to me, it's just it's personally one of those things that I just don't, don't buy.

Spencer Moore:

Well, and I think that, you know, for, for me, going low tox after dealing with a lot of chronic health issues and having early stage breast cancer diagnosis, I've really gone low tox in my life. And we're talking a lot of changes across a lot of areas in my life. And one of them, for me that has been the hardest is just breaking ingrained things like, you know, every time I would leave the house, I would put on perfume. It was just it was part of my routine, you know, the hairspray that all this stuff, and it's been letting that go. I think that's kind of been harder. It's not even so much learning information, because if you really want to learn it, it's there and you can find it. I think there's a lot of pushback from, from who you share this with because some people may think, you know, oh, it's just perfume. It's not a big deal. And then it's like, look, it's Pandora's Box for me. I can either say, you're right, it's a personal preference, or I can try and convert them. I've learned now that you just say, look, it's a personal preference at this point, for me at least.

Amy Enos:

And you kind of hit the nail on the head in as much as I hate to believe this, not everybody cares about. Yes. Right. Not everybody even believes that ingredients are impacting your health. But I know it to be true. And I and I know a lot of people who also know it to be true and care and to some degree, you know, I think that's the power and the beauty of having I mean, for all the maybe not so great things, social media is the good part of it is just spreading awareness and I've and I've just learned you I never I'm never coming from a convincing state. It's like people obviously people can make up their own minds. Right. And it's not about being perfect. That's another thing that we'll talk about being like, a little bit later. But yeah, absolutely. It's a lot. Yeah. So talking about our ingredients. So I kind of lumped together the disruptors, phthalates and fragrance because often in the personal care space, specifically phthalates are going to be what's hiding under those fragrance products. And it's just an easy hack to remove fragrance from the things you buy, right? The other two that I wanted to talk about, that I think are, well, more well known, but also they're they're quite scary and there's a good reason to talk about them. So, parabens, was one that we definitely wanted to touch on in this podcast. So paraben is, it's probably something that your listeners have heard. It's a pretty well known ingredient. They are used as preservatives in the cosmetic and body care space. Again, tying back to they act as endocrine disruptors or endocrine disrupting chemicals. And so I see this have a really big impact with fertility, with reproductive organs. To your point, you quoted a statistic earlier about breast cancer tissue, and samples of that, like, there's a lot of studies, multiple breast cancer studies, whether in the EU or in the US. And so these you're going to see in shampoos, conditioners, lotions, facial cleansers, face washes, things of that nature. And something that's worth mentioning because and I feel like I can say this as a, as a health care provider trained in the US, okay. This is not something that is taught to us at all. There's quite honestly not enough time in the curriculum of learning, whether you're how to be a nurse, how to be a doctor, how to be a pharmacist. Right. Like treatment and efficacy is always the the kind of the focus. Right. So we are not taught about inactive ingredients and all of all of this stuff just isn't there. So when people in the low tox kind of holistic space, I tell them, be kind to your traditional providers because they just don't know. And you kind of the flip side of that is people will tell me like, oh, my dermatologist recommended X product, or my doctor recommended this product for eczema. And I’'m not kidding, they have parabens in them. So those doctors have been trained. Oh this product works for this outcome. Not to even think about ingredients. Right. And so you know I'm not a big like throw other brands under the bus. But there are a lot of on the pharmacy shelf products that are, you know, oh this one's great for eczema. This is great to wash your face with and lotion with. There are parabens in these products. Right. And so I'm always kind of dancing that line of not wanting to I don't really think it's good karma to like bash other companies, but from a consumer perspective, like it's important for people to know that, okay, your doctor who you love and trust and have a great relationship with and no disrespect to them because I'd be in the same boat 15 years ago. Look at the back of the bottle because it's an issue. One little factoid if people are really nerdy on this podcast, is that often you're going to see parabens with a prefix. So it's going to say methyl paraben or ethyl paraben and, and that has to deal with like the number of certain functional groups on the, on the pair of in compound.

And actually, the more functional groups they have. So when you get into propyl paraben, butyl paraben, those actually have stronger estrogenic activity than the aforementioned ones. So, that is one I think people can usually spot on a label, too. There are some really long chemical names you'll see on the back of these products. Parabens is one that I think is great to bring up, because it's pretty easy to spot

Spencer Moore:

One thing I wanted to bring up, actually, I've been following your account on Instagram for years, and we were actually communicating with each other years ago. Because you were, you would say, oh, if you have a question, send me the question in the DM. And so I did send you a question, and I'd love to bring that up now, because you really opened my eyes at that point. At that point I think this may have been during Covid, there were a lot of apps that had come out where you could scan your products and it would tell you the degree of safety of that product.

And I remember that you had been talking about these, and I, I messaged you and I said, what do you think about this specific app? You know, what's your thought? And what I found was really interesting is you said, look, I can't give you specific, you know, advice about this app, but what I can tell you is find out who is funding the app, find out about the back end of the app.

Amy Enos:

It's true. And this I mean, this is the other kind of dark part of the space as well. And it it's tough because I just think this is human nature. I don't think this is an American's thing, but people want an easy out. They want an easy solution. Right? Not that honestly. Like I don't actually think scanning every product at the grocery store is easy. I think that's hard because, yeah. But, so people are always sending me messages about apps. What do you think of this app? What do you think of that app? And I, I generally don't recommend them and just to speak to why. And I know that's probably disappointing to people. First of all, some of the more well-known apps are pay for play. So to get a verification or a seal or a certification, call it what you will. There is a monetary value of achieving that. Okay. So I don't think most people think about that. The other thing that's maddening, and also people don't think about is I mean, there are I'm going to say 85,000 chemicals out there potentially that we're working with. There's ones coming out every year. I mean, these chemicals that didn't exist, you know, 80 years ago. So when I'm talking to these elderly people that I know and love so much, the products that they used were very likely safer than the products that were used. Of course. And so we've got new ingredients coming out all the time. And surprise, companies change their ingredients, companies get sold, companies get acquired. And you're not necessarily hearing about that. So when that comes across my kind of stratosphere, I share about that as well, because there could be some great companies out there and it's hard to find a brand that is actually accessible locally. I'm going to be honest with you, 90% of the products I have in my home, if not more than that, are coming from an online retailer.

Spencer Moore:

And we're going to talk about that, sorry, I just want to so people know we are going to talk about where your products come from later.

Amy Enos:

Sure, sure. So it saddens me when I see a product that is accessible, you know, because online shopping isn't for everybody and a company gets purchased and acquired. And then you know what happens. The first thing that usually happens is the ingredients change because it's hard work to make clean products. It costs more money to make clean products. And so when you go to a company that's acquired a smaller company, guess what? It's cheaper to make a product that's harmful. It just is. It's cheaper to make a product that can sit on the shelf longer, with a harmful preservative. It's just the sad reality of it. So for me, the how can I mean, I'm not an app expert, but just the diligence of keeping up with that. I mean, how many millions of products are on the market? So, sure. Is it something that a tool that people can use if they're starting, if they don't really know anything? I, you know, I always want people to make better choices. I just don't want people to get lost in the, you know, the gospel of this app says it's clean, so it must be clean because I've not found that to be true.

Spencer Moore:

Right. Kind of just blind faith of thinking that they can be is trustworthy. I think that's what it goes down to, is that these these products are just not trustworthy. And it's it's really disappointing.

Amy Enos:

Absolutely. The last ingredient, if you want me to kind of close the loop on the ingredient. Yes, please. For formaldehyde. And so this one is a little tricky. Well, I'll say tricky to find on a label because formaldehyde is going to be under many different names. You're not. Whereas you're going to look on the back of a product and see the word paraben. You probably aren't going to see the word formaldehyde. And formaldehyde is a known carcinogen. So I know we've been talking about endocrine disruption a lot, and while sometimes we're relating that to breast cancer, endocrine disruption is I mean, everything from thyroid issues to, you know, reproductive challenges. I mean, there's so many things that your hormones dictate in your body.Formaldehyde, known carcinogens. So a carcinogen is a chemical that is known and documented to cause cancer in cells in humans. Right. And so this one is really this is the kind of thing that fires me up. And when I see we've seen it in the U.S over the last, I don't know, five years recall after recall where there's a known carcinogen. Oh, we're finding this in the products. We have to recall this. And mind you that recall is voluntary. The FDA does not have authority over these companies to mandate anything. It's a voluntary recall. Okay. So, there is a really sad recording of a congresswoman talking to, baby product manufacturer about formaldehyde replacers being in the product actually was talking to the FDA. It was a congresswoman is interviewing someone, representing the FDA. And it was talking about this whole issue, the safety, the can you put something in there that's harmful, you know, what have you. And so that's what really fires me up. And you could easily YouTube, Google, find search that video. But so these, these kind of formaldehyde related compounds and I don't want to get too technical, because they, they're probably hiding under maybe five different ingredient names potentially like, formalin, methylene glycol, dmdm hydantoin is one a lot of people will see in their shampoos. But we're talking nail polish, shampoos, baby soaps, which is like the thing that just just fires me up. Hair gel and in kind of, the hair straightening and smoothing space. So looking at, African American products, that is a huge issue in the hair care, like what is required for African American hair care, which I don't know much about personally, but the ingredients in those products are not safe, generally speaking. Right. So this one's a huge there's been a decent amount of press about this as well. But yeah, scary stuff. Right? I mean, most people are going into a store thinking, oh, I'm buying this. Someone must have looked at this. This must be safe, when in reality there's something that can cause cancer in the product you're allowed to buy. It's just maddening.

Spencer Moore:

I was really shocked because, I, I was using a brand of nail polish and they came out with a cleaner version - it said new low tax nail polish, formaldehyde free. And I thought formaldehyde free. Did the original have formaldehyde in it? Because my knowledge of formaldehyde is that is what they used to embalm bodies in the United States. I never would have imagined that it would be in products like the nail polish I used at the nail salon or at home to paint my nails.

What exactly is the use of formaldehyde in products and what type of products would contain formaldehyde?

Amy Enos:

Well, it's a lot of those that I just mentioned. I mean, nail polish is probably one of the more common ones. But eyelash glue is a product that people might not think about that formaldehyde can be hiding in. But you're right. And go back to environmental exposure. Women and men working in nail salons are at a huge risk of exposure. And so that's another thing that personally, I mean, but there are companies who are looking, you know, who have a market for that and want to make clean nail polish. And again, if that's something that brings you joy, great. Like see if you can find another option. But that's another thing I don't really I don't really do too much. Maybe in the summer I paint my toenails once, but it's it's not a huge priority. It's it's funny how simple your product cabinet can be when you get, kind of in the low tox space.

Spencer Moore:

It's true. You eliminate guys, you you clear up so many shelves and cabinets because you just don't have all of these options. And and like I say, it's also kind of design. It's this shift of lifestyle, you know, where you are ingrained by your grandmother and your mother that, you know, you don't leave the house without your toenails painted in the summertime. And then you realize, but what is actually in the toenail polish that I'm putting on my body? And it's it's a whole shift.

Amy Enos:

It really is.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah. And by the way, this affects both men and women. I mean, I do think women are more exposed to chemicals because of the beauty industry. But, you know, the fertility like you talked about, it affects men's sperm count, sperm quality. That's a very important aspect of, you know, overall fertility. It's not just for women.

Amy Enos:

Yeah. I think this is a really good point. I think as women, obviously we're putting more products on our bodies. But we're also the ones typically buying for our household. Who are the ones who are making these decisions. So I think that's why we tend to focus on women. So exposure risk, you know, what does that really mean and what kind of health. So health issue wise I talked to people. It's not for me. Cancer was what propelled this into something I got a lot. But to your point, this is kind of like it could be something as extreme as cancer. It could be something as extreme as autoimmune disorders. But it's also ailments of day to day that have an impact on how we feel. I mean, think about headaches, eczema. Actually fatigue, fatigue. There's been decent studies, too, about your toxic load and how you metabolize and how easily you can gain or lose weight. I mean, I mean, that's a whole other conversation. But I guess this is where people don't think necessarily about their skin as being an organ. Okay. And so your skin is an organ. Your skin is not a barrier. Your skin absorbs what you put on it. Right. And so depending on what that is, depending on, you know, and not to get it in, is it a water loving compound. Is it a a fat loving you like not to get all like sciency and ridiculous here, but, what you would put on your skin is going to be absorbed, right? And things are going to get into your bloodstream. I mean, like if you're someone who takes medication, think about if you're on a treatment that's a patch, that is medication is getting into your bloodstream. Right. And so people don't think that, oh, what I'm putting on my body every day is actually getting into my bloodstream and sometimes quite quickly. Not everything, but it can be less than a minute before something is in your bloodstream after applying it to the skin. Again, not everything has a huge spectrum of how quickly and to what degree things are absorbed. But the issue is that, and this is where people don't think about it because they think I'm cuckoo cachoo for talking about this all the time because they're like, oh, I feel fine, I feel fine, I feel fine, I feel fine until boom, something happens. And so there's a concept called body burden where you think about product after product after product after day after day after year after year after year, and all of a sudden that bucket overflows. Okay. So, I think for people to be aware, you know, we're we're not just talking about cancer, we're talking about just general feeling good. And, and you can have an impact and you can make a change, in how you feel by paying attention to this stuff.

Spencer Moore:

Right, right. I was speaking in my last interview with a woman diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and we were talking about this body burden, and I had a doctor once tell me it's like putting eggs in a basket. And if you keep piling on the eggs, they're eventually going to fall out and break open, you know? And so you kind of have to decide how you feel, your basket with what eggs, you know, and, and now it's just with plastics and BPA and endocrine disruptors and all of these things, the baskets are just completely overflowing. And people are sick. They're sick. They don't feel well. And it's a vicious cycle because, you know, when you don't feel well, it's really hard to change, make change in your life. You know, when you have really fatigue and you have chronic migraines and all these, these issues, stomach problems, you really it's really challenging to implement new lifestyle changes. And I really like that. You say, look, eliminate fragrance, start at number one, get the fragrance out. That will at least take an egg out of your basket. You know, if you can't change your diet, don't change your diet yet. Diet. Changing your diet can be really, really stressful because people, you know, we eat, we enjoy eating. But these products are something that you can swap out quite effortlessly if you know which products you need to swap out and for what.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Spencer Moore:

Would you want to chat about the FDA and the US, what do you think?

Amy Enos:

I mean, like not to be a Debbie Downer, but these are trillion dollar industries. And so I don't really see a light at the end of the tunnel soon for significant change. So the people who are living now, who want to make healthier choices can't wait. Maybe there will be changes, right? Like there are things that pop up with water in the EPA and things happening. But this takes a tremendous amount of time, and there is a lot of money and power and politics wrapped up in these industries. So it's just like, what can I do to make to make an impact on the health of myself and my family? And so going down that kind of, you know, this industry is the wild, wild West. It's regulating itself. There's very little oversight. I mean, if you kind of zoom out to, you know, a byproduct from this industry, what do we do from it? Oh, the cosmetics industry, I mean, not to go down this rabbit hole, but, like, talk about petroleum jelly or petrolatum, which is an ingredient in a lot of ointments and emollients, things of that nature. That's a byproduct from another industry that's being sold to us and store shelves in pharmacies. Right. So for me, waiting for that kind of governmental oversight or protection is just not really what I'm thinking about. Yeah, of course, of course. I just kind of have thought of you talking about how these are kind of byproducts and that it's $1 trillion industry.

Spencer Moore:

You know, big pharma is $1 trillion industry. And, you know, I'm curious as to your thoughts as a pharmacist and and also being in this low tox world, of understanding these ingredients, do you feel kind of a contradiction sometimes in your profession now that you've been educated? So much?

Amy Enos:

So this is such a great question, and it's a big part of my shift professionally because, well, first off, my career as a pharmacist, being in geriatrics is, is actually very focused on prescribing, you know, getting people on the lowest possible dose that they can possibly be on. So I always felt really good doing that. But now knowing what I know, I mean, people ask me all the time about supplements and drugs and it's just it's it's first of all, not something I talk about. And it's, it's an interesting divide with, it's honestly why I stepped. I was a director of pharmacy at a very busy pharmacy for many, many years. And I stepped down from the position because it wasn't really aligned with my passion and what I want to do and what I feel really drawn to do. So that's been a really important shift for me, just personally and professionally.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. I'm really excited to talk to you about greenwashing, for you to explain to our listeners what greenwashing is and why it is so important. We've talked a bit about ingredients that they'll find on the back of the bottle. And, earlier you said, don't pay attention to the front of the bottle, so I'd love to touch on that.

Amy Enos:

Yeah. And outside of just the industry firing me up and it being it making me angry that this can even happen, nothing fires me up more than greenwashing. And so let's define what that is. So greenwashing is misleading marketing that is done by companies to make something look green or healthy, when in reality it contains ingredients that could potentially be harmful to your health.

What? So I actually have more respect for companies out there who are putting garbage in their products and not marketing themselves as clean. They know who they are. They're not marketing to people who care about ingredients. Great. The people who are claiming that they're nontoxic, that they're toxin free, that they're clean, that they're green, and then they're using some of these harmful preservatives or things that could potentially be harmful.

Nothing fires me up more than this issue. Because it's basically a company talking the talk but not walking the walk. And I just think it's awful. Right. And so I think, I think this is a big segway into while I was journeying around as a low tox consumer and my mom got diagnosed with cancer and all of that stuff. Obviously I was fired up because of what was happening in my personal life and when when I came to know this, I'm like, this is awful, and I want to find a company that is not doing this right. And so, as a consumer, I found a New England small batch manufacturer. So I live in Maine and in Rhode Island I found this company that was making nontoxic products. And again, no one is more skeptical of companies than me. You know, when I was first introduced to this company as a consumer, and their skin care that they sell happens to have pre and probiotics. And, you know, I'm a pharmacist and I'm like prebiotics - what are you you know what I mean. I'm you know instantly my inclination is to not trust. Right. And until I kind of dig a little deeper and so Pure Haven is the name of that small batch manufacturer. And that's where I started buying products, because at the time, I wasn't doing what I was doing on the internet. I simply wanted clean products and I had little kids, and I had an insanely demanding job, and I wanted one stop shopping easy button. Where can I do this and just make my life simpler? And I think that is such a big deal for so many people, because the people who, you know, as you start going on this journey and you start deciding that you care, the initial reaction this is overwhelming. This is too hard. Oh my God, I'm going to die. What's going on? Right. And so and I don't know all this, I have to be an ingredient expert. And the reality is, when you find a company that you trust, that is doing the right things, I think it just takes that burden off of you, because of knowing what they're doing. And so, the whole greenwashing thing was something that, quite honestly, really also propelled me to Pure Haven as a consumer, because most people don't realize that they're who they're buying from. Is probably not manufacturing their own products, which, I mean, that's a big deal. And some companies are, but not all companies. Right? And so if you turn your bottle over and it says distributed by, or manufactured by somebody different than the company you're buying from, that's a big eye opener to who's making your product. So them having that oversight and control was just a huge game changer for me.

Spencer Moore:

That's so interesting. I never thought about the distribution. And it's a lot that you've said about the fact that companies can get bought out and their ingredients change. I mean, you know, I think especially as Americans, we're taught this brand loyalty, you know, like Johnson and Johnson. And, you know, I mean, it's like you really connect and these brands become nostalgic in a way, and you stick with them your whole life. But, you know, it's and it's like you also say there's, you know, so many chemicals now, a new chemicals coming out every year that you have to stay so vigilant. So to find a company that is dedicated to clean products and that makes and distributes their own products, I think that that's kind of like, you know, a diamond in the rough right now.

Amy Enos:

I would agree, and what I, what I remind people as they kind of go and we kind of have alluded to this in how simplistic our purchasing as consumers has become once you become kind of low toxic, because sometimes people are oh, wow, maybe. So maybe the deodorant you're buying from a clean company might cost more than the deodorant at the grocery store or the pharmacy.

Right. There's a reason for that. And that's an investment in your health. And it's hard to make clean products. It's so much easier to make products that are harmful. And one of the things that I think, you know, sets Pure Haven apart is their whole foundation is this obsession with the commitment to not putting harmful ingredients in their products. So because they're a manufacturer and they're formulating their own products, they are purchasing ingredients, right? So they have to purchase raw materials, they have to purchase the aloe and they have to part, you know, and they actually require their ingredient vendors to sign affidavits from the suppliers that attest to the sourcing and the purity of not only those ingredients, but the sub ingredients, because sometimes there can be preservatives used in that shipment of that ingredient. But honestly, there are vendors that Pure Haven just won't work with because they won't sign off on it or they won't disclose. They once had a body butter in formulation. And it took, I think, over three years to bring to market because of a vendor that revealed something in their ingredient supply and then didn't disclose or wouldn't sign the affidavit. I mean, it's that is just next level obsession. And I hope that that gives people the like most people don't want to be low pharmacists, right? They don't want to be these ingredient detectives. They just want to have the peace of mind that they're not putting anything harmful on their body. So for me, that's been that's been everything, to be able to share that with consumers, because people are looking for that, people want to make better choices.

Spencer Moore:

I think they do. And I think also it's like we touched on so now people don't have a choice. They're diagnosed with a really heavy diagnosis, and they have to make lifestyle changes. And and if they're educated enough, they know that the environmental is just as important as, for example, the organic fruits and vegetables, because like, you can eat organic fruits and vegetables all day long, but if you're using hairspray and shampoos and nail polish and all of these, you know, ingredients that contain these terrible chemicals, it's it's just going to cancel each other out.

Amy Enos:

Absolutely. You know, it's a full picture type of change. You bring up such a good point in terms of it's true that a lot of people that come to me as Pure Haven enthusiastic people, right? And using those products, so many people have experienced something in their life. I mean, even something as simple as my son has just awful recurring eczema. I need something that's actually going to work to I'm a three time cancer survivor and I am done. Like, I need something that's clean. And I also find that people who haven't had one of those pivotal life experiences, it's smart people that are coming to me. And I don't mean this as an insult, but the people who are buying Pure Haven are not the people who are going to fall into a product going viral on the internet. They're not people that are going to be like following a trend of, oh, this is clean or this is that there are people who actually understand the issue. And understand what's being done to get them the product that they're using. Right. And, there are effective products there because you can make a clean product and it can be garbage, but people demand, you know, products that perform. So I think that I always find that people who find their way to me, they're smart. They get it.

Spencer Moore:

I think they're smart. And I also think that they're educated. You know, I really believe that education is so empowering and that it's not just it's not as powerful, but it really empowers you to make choices for yourself. The more you know, the more you know what is your right path and what is good for you. And I think the more people can learn about these types of environmental causes of disease, the, the more educated they are to make informed decisions that are right for them. You know, and, and I think that's the unfortunate truth right now about your social media. So amazing. You can find like minded people, you can find these great tribes and communities. But, you know, you can also fall for stuff really easily because stuff is just put in just such a beautiful, brilliant way. And so it's really being, you know, empowering yourself to know what is the best decision for you.

Amy Enos:

So. Well said.

Spencer Moore:

So, I want to talk a bit about just the Pure Haven products, what products are available?

Amy Enos:

Sure, sure. So Pure Haven really the vision of the company is to be able to provide people what they need for their home, what they need for their personal care. So they're whereas you might be able to find, say, a bar soap company that's doing great things, all these health bar soap. Right. So then you have to find another company that sells your shampoo, that sells your what? So pure Haven has everything from, you know, skincare to hair care, home cleaning, baby kids, pets.

I mean, think of every, you know, toothpaste. Think of everything you need in your personal routine. I mean, they even have makeup, you know, and again, not they're not a makeup company, but they have an offering of makeup, right? So it's really meant to be. Here's your one stop shopping for what you need for your home. In all things personal care. I guess it's kind of the easiest way to put it. I mean, they have over 100 products, so there's a lot to choose from. That's great. And they have it available for purchase online. It's a, it's only, it's a direct to consumer shipment. And I think I get this question a lot. I think a big part of that is that they're a small manufacturer. Right? So their products are not intended to sit on store shelves for five years. You know, they are intended to be. And, you know, there are some that have multi-year expiration dates, depending on if it's an oil based product or what have you. But they're meant to ship freshly to people to consume, right? So yes, online only. It's US only. I talked to a lot of people who live in rural parts of the country and they just don't have access to clean products. And so it's such a game changer for people looking for that.

Spencer Moore:

One thing I learned from you and your account is the to kind of lessen the overwhelm of making the switch with a lot of products that I had that were quite toxic. Is that when the product ran out, I then switched to a different version, and that has been so helpful for me. I'm so thankful to you for that advice because it's really expensive to go in and change all of your skincare, all of your shampoo, and your bath and shower products and your kitchen products. It's quite overwhelming. And so as I was going to have to replace them anyways, I just started making these conscious choices to replace them with a safer product.

Amy Enos:

Absolutely. I mean, those small incremental changes, they do matter. And so I think it's really important to just remind people of that because, yeah, there are going to be people that want to dump everything out of their house, but that's very practical for most people. So just thinking about what you're using every day, because you might not be this kind of person or that kind of person, what, what, what are you using? And that's probably a good place to start. I mean, other considerations are, do you have pets? Do you have kids? I mean, we barely even talked about cleaning, but that is a huge source of, you know, indoor air pollution is an actual thing. And aka and good God, the beauty and cosmetics industry cleaning is actually worse. It's actually worse. So, yeah, the advice that I always give to people is just don't look at the entire staircase, just take one step, and then after you've done that, then you can take another step. You just have to be patient with yourself. When you make the decision to make these changes and like we alluded to, you will find that even though you might be swapping out these products and. Sure, I think it's worth noting and we've talked about this, that these products aren't necessarily going to be cheap. It's very comparable to food in our country. Right? Some of the unhealthiest food is the most cost effective food. And you'll find when you make those changes overall, you're probably going to have less products, in your house anyway. So it's, it's that simplicity, simplistic nature of it is something I enjoy personally as well.

Spencer Moore:

Yeah. And I think also, you know, it's an investment in your health because if you take the cheaper choices now, you will pay off a hundredfold in health problems and the medication and hospital bills in your future. So it's kind of a you make the choice. Do you want to do it now and pay more now? And also you're you're paying for your time, your life, you know, the, the quality of your life. So it is an investment, but it's it's probably the best long term investment you can ever make in your life.

Amy Enos:

Absolutely. And thank you for saying that, because I think that's the disconnect between people who believe in this and take action. They truly do see it as making an investment in their health, just like they would going to the gym or, you know, going out of their way to make a meal with clean ingredients. Right? It's the same thing and it matters. And that peace of mind when you're taking a shower and you're not worried about what you're putting on your body because you know, it's clean, right?

Spencer Moore:

Right. And I think so much of it, I don't really believe that so much of this is down to education that people just don't know. I mean, it's like I said at the very beginning that the information is out there, but yet it's still quite hidden because there's just so much on top of it, like the greenwashing and the brand loyalty and the the thought that, you know, oh, I'm just putting on my skin. It's not, it isn't, it doesn't, you know, it's not like I'm ingesting pesticides, you know, or smoking, it all matters. And so the more this conversation can happen and be shared, the better, because I really do think that there's so many people that want to be healthy, and they just don't know that they're not being healthy.

Amy Enos:

You're hit the nail on the head, and I feel like I said, you hit the nail on the head so many times during this podcast. It's actually quite comical, but they're people don't know about it. And so they think they're using clean products. They think what they're because they've been marketed to believe that. Right. And so it can be really frustrating when they first find this out because it's like, man, I thought I was doing good by my family. I thought I was doing right, and that's how good the marketing is, right? And so it is something we have to keep talking about because, I mean, I've been doing this a few years now and it content, it doesn't like ever get old in my mind that I'm like, wow, there are people hearing this for the first time. I have to keep repeating myself. I have to keep talking about this because so many people don't realize that the products they're using every day are having an impact on their health. It's it's really and it's that comes down to the country and the regulation and the I mean, it's it's it's always been profits over people. It's just how it's been. And there there aren't a lot of companies out there doing differently. And so when you find one you kind of hold on. You hold on to it. Yeah.

Spencer Moore:

You know, I think for, for, for me, I know that scented candles are such a big thing and, you know, it's like, oh, to just to unwind on a Friday night, have a glass of wine, let your scented candle and just hang out at home and and it's like, no, but since the candles are terrible, these are so many toxins and they're going into your lungs, which is so scary. And then people say, no, don't worry about the soy candles. It's okay. It's like, no, you need to go a step further and just not buy the candle at all. So yeah, I think people make the effort, but it's really knowing the full picture. And, that's leading me to a really interesting, series that you and I have talked about that I know that you are a big fan of and it is a series called Not So Pretty. I really recommend anybody that wants kind of some leisurely education sitting on their sofa watching a TV series to check out this. It was produced by HBO. It is now available on HBO Max and Amazon Prime, and it's a four part series. Make up nails, skin and hair are the four parts. If you're interested in this conversation and kind of scratching the surface, learning more, it is an eye opening TV series.

Amy Enos:

I could not agree more. And I've talked about this on my Instagram, where I kind of break down each episode because it is such a powerful documentary. I think it really does a good job highlighting how unregulated it is. It talks a lot about the exposures, and things people have gone through because of how unregulated this industry is, is it's a super empowering, docu series, and I think it's well done and pretty easily digestible. They do talk about apps at the end, which is one interesting thing. Usually at the episode they kind of point you to some apps. But we've talked about here. So now you know, that's right. That's very true, very true. Perhaps maybe in your Instagram then do you have any of that content and highlight bubbles or any anywhere that's accessible for listeners? If they do want to hear your take on the series, if you if you scroll back, I usually will highlight, you know, I'll put Not So Pretty in the feed so you can identify that it’s related to that.

Spencer Moore:

Okay. Perfect. Perfect. So we're just a couple further things and then we're going to get to our Pluck This! closing segment. But what I would love to ask you is, and we touched on this on just one earlier, but what are some products that you can tell our listeners that you would never use again.

Amy Enos:

Perfume. You know, definitely do not do not need it. It's going to do more harm than good. It's just something I won't buy. I do have a perfume in my bathroom that is actually my mom's, and I can't. I can't part with it, but I don't smell it. It just sits on the shelf in my bathroom.

But to me, that's an easy and expensive one to just not buy it. Don't do it to me. You'll be better off. I think the one for me personally. Second to that, while there are some nail polish companies out there that are doing some pretty good things, to me, it's just not a priority. So I think nail polish is one that you don't need in your routine. So I think that's an easy one to, for me personally, to just skip over. Yeah. Okay.

Spencer Moore:

Very, very good. So here on The Hairy Chin Podcast, we, end each episode with the Pluck This! segment. These are tangible takeaways for the listeners so that they can do something actionable. Now after they've listened to this episode, you are offering the listeners of this episode 15% off their first purchase of Pure Haven products, which is very exciting.

Amy Enos:

It's so awesome. And this is this is really awesome for the people who are ready to go big or go home, because if you've got a 15% off coupon and you want to make some serious swaps, like you can save some significant money, you know? So I always when I'm talking to people, if you're going to make a deodorant swap, that's great and you're going to get 15% off. But, you know, it's it's definitely, something that I encourage people to consider. Because it's just it's a first time thing and it will happen. You know, I know you're going to put links in the show notes. You don't exactly. You don't have to remember anything. The system will know that you're new and it will automatically come out for you at the last step of checkout.

Spencer Moore:

That's fantastic. So yes, like Amy said, everything will be in the show notes, which will include Amy's incredible Instagram account, lowtoxpharmacist. It will include the Pure Haven website. Pure Haven also has an Instagram account. And also the link for the Not So Pretty TV documentary, which I think is really a great watch. Do you have any final thoughts for us, Amy, as we're kind of winding down?

Amy Enos:

Well, one thing I did just remember that I didn't mention in terms of like throwing away products or thinking about products, we didn't talk about it at all. And another easy hack. I know we talked about fragrance is I tend to avoid aerosolized products. So when you're thinking if you're someone who uses dry shampoo or a aerosolized sunscreen, the non aerosolized versions are always going to be safer. So that was just a quick little easy thing that I forgot to mention previously. That's great. And they're also better for the environment. Totally, totally. So final thoughts for listeners, I think, take a deep breath. This is a big it's a big issue. And I just want to remind people that, you also don't have to be perfect. There's a there's a culture in the low tox space of where I have to do this. I have to be clean, I have to I have to just breathe and make those small changes. And if there's something that brings you joy that you do once in a while, that is not nearly as critical as the things that you're using every single day. So give yourself some grace. You know, I mean, I think this isn't about, being judgy of each other or trying to be perfect, but I think once you know this information, you just naturally want to make better choices. But it's okay. I cringe to think about what I put on my babies. Like I have a teenager and when I think about what I put on her as a baby, I cringe. I didn't know this right, and so I just give myself the grace and forgiveness. I didn't know that right? I did the best I could at the time and I didn't know. So I think people just. Doing that positive self-talk as they go down this journey. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to take in. So it is a lot. Yeah, that would be my $0.02.

Spencer Moore:

I think it's great. And you know I the one thing that I'll, I'll say, in my experience is I think trusting that my body will heal and that will be okay has been a huge mind shift for me because, you know, our bodies are brilliant. We don't even understand the magnitude of how brilliant they are of cleaning themselves and detoxing themselves. We don't have to do all these detoxes. It's just we need to protect them. We need to take care of them. And so it's, you know, it's it's really kind of prioritizing that we're here to protect these shells of the bodies that we live in during this lifetime, and they will take care of us back if we protect it. And that's kind of been my shift is realizing, look, if I can avoid some of these chemicals, my body will pick up the slack for the rest.

Amy Enos:

I love that you said that because I'll get questions about detox supplements and things of that nature, and that is couldn't be further from what I am talking about, because avoidance is so powerful. And everything that you just said it will have an impact. You don't have to, you know, buy that supplement or have that easy fix. If you start making some of these choices, and leaning into that avoidance, avoiding these toxic hands is super powerful, right? Right. I mean, I could talk to you all day. I could do a whole podcast just talking with you.

Spencer Moore:

This is just such a wonderful conversation. I just it's I've really enjoyed it. Really.

Amy Enos:

I've really enjoyed it, too. When I kind of looked through our notes of the outline of our chat today, I was thinking, oh boy, this is going to be a meaty one. It's going to be a lot. So maybe, maybe in the future we could get together again and chat more about something.

Spencer Moore:

I would love it. I would love it. You and I touched on this for a second, and in the Not So Pretty they talk about talc and they talk about makeup and powders, and it's so important. If you're interested in that, just Google it and learn a bit about it. Watch the documentary. But makeup is just for women. It's so, so important. But yeah, if we could just go down a lot of rabbit holes here. It's been really fun.

Amy Enos:

It has been. I'm so, so thankful that you reached out because, you know, the more people that hear this and the more people that are listening and we keep talking about it, the the healthier people will be. So it's been, you know, an honor and a pleasure to chat with you today. And I appreciate, the platform to do so. Well, thank you.

Spencer Moore:

And the honor has been all mine and hopefully we'll sync up again. I would look forward to it!

Spencer Moore:

Thanks for joining us on The Hairy Chin Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please head over to www.spencerita.com to join our creative community. I'm Spencer Moore reminding you that knowledge isn't just powerful, it's empowering. When you know better, you do better. So stay strong, keep going, and I'll see you next time.